Weekly Kilometers

[gunner]

Been wondering for a while, if I was doing too many klm's at the moment my weekly kilometres are between 100klm and 120klm per week, and will be heading into my bulk training phase which peaks at 142klm's.
I'm concerned that I might be running too many "junk" miles. Although having said that I have learnt from past and have distinct sessions now which can be broken down into the following categories.
Tempo Intervals eg: (6 x1200 with 200 jog rec), Tempo runs, Time trials, Long Slow runs at a predetermined heart rate usually 140 bpm or less and Long Runs at GMP.


Gunner

Is it possible less will give me the same benefits?

[bernadette]

What's your goal, Gunner? Marathons, mid-distance, sprint runs, ultras, trail?

I don't hit 100 kms in any week.

[gunner]

Sorry Bernie,
I should have a bit clearer. Sub 3hr Marathon at perth 2009 is my ultimate goal, managed a 3:10:28 plus transition time at the 2008 Ironman and now I have a new one of completing the 2010 Ironman as an individual.


Gunner

[epi]

Hi Gunner,

Nice to see you posting again.

I think you'll get a number of different perspectives on this one.

My thought are, doing a standard style training regime with 3 quality sessions per week - long run, intervals and tempo, total distance should be as much as your body can handle while still leaving you relatively fresh for the quality runs.

Looking at top runners programmes, this means they will run am and pm sessions most days and run 150k plus, but keep the slow stuff slow. People at our level probably run only a couple of am/pm's and hit the low to mid 100km mark.

The hardest thing for me is keeping the easy runs slow enough to serve the purpose they have - aerobic development and recovery. I dont think there are junk miles per se.

People who run long slow bases will run many more km slowly, but with less tempo and interval pace stuff, and there are those who feel they can do just as well running three times a week only.

In your case (as you have said yourself), I think one issue in your last leadup was too much running at 4:25-4:35 pace. If you can get the runs into zones - interval, tempo (3:55-4:00), MP (4:15) and easy (4:45+), I think it will help.

Craig

[trailblazer777]

train smarter not just harder

I think less will give you similiar benefits, if you work out what are the key sessions you need to do...that said, running, cycling,swimming,kayaking, rowing (anything actually with a sustained high enough intensity) every day will help...but IMO the obsession with logging km is over-rated...

I have thought for a long time that logging minutes instead of km is a way better strategy, partly because you can then include crosstraining, and also cos you dont have to keep adjusting your goalposts as you hit higher intensities (e.g. 12km at 5min/km pace, may become a low intensity effort after a few years/months (depends how steep your improvement curve is, and how much you maintain it), when formerly it was a high intensity effort...so if you just say I did 60min run at an av heart rate (or end heart rate in my case as i dont have a garmin etc, so less accurate for me) of 150, and then you do 60min run on same course with av HR of 140 in a years time, you know you are improving...

if going after ironman that will become even more so...although you can still log km as separate disciplines i.e run km, cycling km, and swimming km...

reckon there are probably 2-4 key sessions that should be done on a weekly or at least fortnightly basis for maximum benefit...if you are going after ironman obviously you need to bring in the ride and swim sessions in a big way to develop the specific muscles needed, plus the movement patterns/neuromuscular stuff, and mental stuff...

that said though I repeat
running, cycling,swimming,kayaking, rowing (anything actually with a sustained high enough intensity) EVERY DAY will help...but IMO how many km or minutes you do in a week is of secondary importance...

but getting the key sessions done that will get you to the goal is of primary importance...
***maybe*** the main value people get from increasing the training volume by km or minutes, whichever way you measure it (minutes for me)...is that the body carries less excess fat, and gets better at using fat as a fuel thus saving the precious carbos for the higher intensity racing...

at the end of the day you have to modify things to what works for the individual, what other demands/needs you have, and what your goals are, or you can just try and fit in with some group/s all the time, but if you lose sight of your individual goals, you are becoming a pawn of a group/s...

junk miles and overtraining will result in loss of motivation and injuries...crosstraining adds mental interest as they say in forrest gump movie "variety is the spice of life"....(maybe many triathletes are bored runners, or bored cyclists or bored swimmers...)..., and using different muscle groups means your running muscles get a rest (less chance of overuse injury), and you get more balanced body development, maybe better core strength, which protects against future injury...
also footy players have an off-season, runners need to have a few weeks off in a year too...

the number of KM/MILES you run wont decide how well you go in a race, the level of neural and physiological fitness you have reached, and how fresh and rested you are, combined with your mental psychological confidence/drive/motivation, and race day strategies, will dictate how well you go in races...

but obviously to reach that peak at some time in the previous months and years you need to have run and/or crosstrained a lot of km or minutes to get to that peak...running at goal marathon pace or higher every day or every second day wont get you to your peak, as the body needs rest and good nutrition to repair ...
you can only peak so many times a year for 42km...if you do em all in training you wont do em in races...people that run 50 marathons in 50 days, dont PB in many if any of them...because the body doesnt have time to recover and rejuvenate, just like after a bushfire, the plants regenerate, and repair and grow back again, but it takes time...thats why the taper idea does work if executed properly, although I find myself doing a reverse taper a lot of times as I dont get enough done in the months before, but even with a reverse taper situation the last 1-3 days, is rest tim, if some sort of peak for marathon on race day is to be reached...

"if you race your training, you will train your races"
is a favourite saying of my coach when i was a junior...

"at the end of the day" (bringing out my ruddesque...(e.g. fiscal clarity,on the question of, in the fullness of time,let me just say, when it comes to, economic stimulus package, working families, education revolution, etc etc etc) overuse of standard cliche phrases) it comes down to what are your individual goals, and what sessions will help you get there quickest, and you dont need 150km a week to get to most goals, unless you are planning on 24 hour races or something...

Ive heard figures like 280km-300km a week (nathan deakes preparing for 50km walk at world championship level)...but he didnt sustain that all year round, only when he was specifically targeting something...it was a lot less at other times of the year...

ok Ive confused myself now...better go for a run...got to log those daily km...now what is that achieving for me, not much if its just a vague notion of aerobic fitness or recovery, although both those things should be considered...
i reckon long run and intervals are all you need, the rest tempos,timetrials,races,recovery runs, etc can be helpful, but they are second tier sessions...if you are going to skip one, skip one of the second tier sessions, which brings us back to the main points;

what are your goals,
how are you going to get there,
what are the must do weekly/fortnightly or monthly sessions,
how is that going to work with other demands in your life
how much money and equipment do you have
what groups,facilities do you have easy access to
what injuries do you have to manage
etc etc...
at the end of the day theres that cliche again coaches, books, pseudo coaches (coaches on l or p plates, even incredible champions like runningbrave can give all the advice we want, but one of the things I learnt from mycoach many years back (and I know from teacher training at uni, and also from my parents) is that the drive and the control of your training has to come from within if you want to get somewhere special..you and you alone Gunner can decide what indivdually works best for you each day, we can offer helpful advice, but you will have to see what works for you and your goals each day/week...

programmes need to be flexible, and a working document, that can always be modified just like these posts..to meet the constantly changing obstacles, and variables that we deal with, just have to go over around, under them, whatever you need to do to keep making progress towards goals, and if goals become unachievable set new ones that are achievable now...

the 6x1200 and long slow runs look like key sessions to me...
and maybe the long run at GMP would be priority 3 if it was me...the rest do em if you can but dont lose too much sleep if not...

[dave]

I don't think there is any such thing as junk miles. It's only junk if it will leave you worn out and unable to complete the rest of your planned mileage.

[Nathan]

Different people different perspectives. You probably know that I'm a fan of high mileage training, but i'm in if for the Ultras mainly. I'll be targeting a sub 3hr @ Perth this year and the weekly k's will top out at around 150k/week, this is mainly to keep the endurance up for future Ultra events.

If I was focusing solely on a sub 3hr marathon I'd top out at 120k/week of quality runs with a 40k long run at about 3:15-3:20 pace. So yeah IMHO you are doing too much.

Bear in mind also that every elite Ironman interview I've ever read (Stadler, Macca, Shortis etc) reveals a similar (not exact) weekly mileage across the 3 disciplines - Swim = 25-30k, Bike = 600-800k, Run = 120k.

I agree with Dave as well, no such thing as junk miles, just easy recovery runs. Agree with Epi that the hardest thing is to run slow enough for recovery runs to serve purpose.

Good luck with it all - find what works and stick to it.

[runningbrave]

Gunner for what its worth ...when you are doing your "junk miles ' as you like to call them I would suggest that you try and run , as often as you can, your runs at the pace that you require for you to achieve your goal so that this pace becomes the norm. Initially you may find this tough but in your case your looking at about 4.15/km... roughly 6 min 20 mile pace..

The marathon is a little different to shorter races in that unlike the 5km and 10km races your pace is a long sustained effort... I don't know about you but when I do fast Km reps I am running considerably faster than I would ever run as a Km rating in the marathon..

As I said initially you may find this tough but ultimately you adjust and not only will you find that you move at a faster more efficient rate over the ground but you feel stronger too...

For what its worth anyway.

Run on....

[gunner]

Thanks for the feedback guy's....Some of you have gone to lot of effort.

Runningbrave,
I try to do at least 2 speed sessions, Tempo Intervals ranging from 6 x 1000 with a 200 sec jog rec in 75 sec increasing every week by 400mtrs until I reach 3 x 2000mtrs -- the other speed session is either intervals or tempo runs....lately have been focusing on the longer tempo's 14klm to 21klm at week with one of them either a tempo at 4:15 or better pace. Last week was the first of the double sessions.

Nathan
Hope fully will be able to keep with you at Perth if your last half marathon effort is anything to go by..

Epi,
Mate you are flying at the moment.

My last 2 weeks training log

10.5klm Hills loop -- Easy
6x1000m @ 3:42 -- 200 mtr in 75 Sec Jog Rec
17klm Easy
Swimming Club PM -- 15klm Run to Swim & Back Home
17klm Tempo Great Temp run...PB.. something must working…. 10 individual klm's under 4:10 min/klm…14klm in 58:46
8km easy Slow hills run
Long Run 30klm--- Very comfortable run…great HR v's apce…did it easy..pulled up exceptionally well..good signs




AM PM
Easy 15klm
8klm Hills Tempo ---- 10x800m; 2min SR
LONG RUN 21klm ----- 8 klm Easy
Swimming Club PM -- - - 15klm Run to Swim & Back Home
17klm @ GMP 4:20
Coogee 2000mtr Swim---- 5x1200m @ 3:43
Long Run 30klm---- Good HR 137 bpm @ 4:50